or “Lesson’s learned from Dan’s weekend” 
I’ll start this out by saying that I am in the market for a VPS hosting plan, such as the one that inspired this post (although I probably won’t go with 1and1, they seem a little pricey), since my one-year payment with my current host will be coming up for renewal in a little while.
Problem #1: Lack of visibility into what’s really going on
For those not familiar with web hosting packages, they usually offer you software that will simplify the administration of your account (or entire “server”, in the case of a VPS). Plesk is a common one; another one you may have seen is cPanel. These things make it fairly easy for someone without any prior experience maintaining a *nix-based server to do so without having to dig in and mess with the config files, and other things that generally scare off GUI-lovers.
The obvious problem with completely hiding what’s really going on behind a prettier interface is that when something breaks and that pretty interface doesn’t know what broke or why, you are up a creek because you won’t have any idea of what it was doing behind the scenes when you clicked the “Save” button.
In the case of package updates, even if a tool like Plesk does use a package management system like RPM behind the scenes, you have no way of knowing exactly what it’s doing (unless you dig through the code - unlikely). As an example in this case, where is Plesk’s ability to rollback when an upgrade introduces a breaking change? You can do this with RPMs, but Plesk won’t tell you that.
Problem #2: Too many points of failure
Another issue that’s common in these cases, and serves to complicate the problem, is that these things also come with tons of packages installed, just in case you might want to use them someday. As any computer security conscious individual will tell you, the more stuff you have running on a system, the more possibilities you have for something either breaking or being exploited. Back when sendmail exploits were all the rage, linux web servers were getting “owned” left and right, and in many cases they didn’t even want the mail server on the box, they were just using it as a web server, but the mail server was installed by default. Consequently, they never bothered updating / patching sendmail since they didn’t use it, and it led to their whole system being compromised.
And it’s not just security issues that make this bad either. Let’s say you installed Apache (web server) and you wanted to serve some basic pages, and maybe do a little PHP as well. Most Linux distros will also give you the option of not only installing a PHP module for Apache, but also a mountain of other ones that may or may not ever be useful to you. If you fail to resist the temptation to install these “just in case you might need them later”, you now have a whole bunch of crap loaded and running on your server that you are unlikely to ever use, but you now have to keep it patched and updated. Not only that, but when you do eventually need to do the upgrade you have to worry about dependencies on all those separate packages, and an upgrade to a base package could break another one that can’t handle the update, etc.
In my opinion, a server should have the absolute minimum amount of software installed that it needs to do it’s job, and not one package more. Prime example / pet peeve of this: servers DO NOT NEED GUIs (KDE, Gnome, etc.) installed; this is obvious, but don’t overlook trimming your list of installed servers and modules / extensions to only what you really need either.
Problem #3: No test environment
Another huge problem with having a tool like Plesk do all your config for you is that it is expensive, and so you probably won’t have a copy on your local computer at home, that you should be using to test out any changes way before you ever make them on your “production” server. This discipline helps you prevent downtime on your real server by only ever implementing changes that you already know will work, because you’ve tested them on another server that no one uses but you. Here is where Plesk breaks this - you won’t have Plesk at home, so you are left with either testing changes at home and then implementing them manually on the server (in which case, you’ve left out Plesk anyway), or just making changes live on the server and hoping nothing goes wrong.
Anyway, I’m sure there is more Plesk bashing that I could do, but I’m getting tired for tonight. I’m sure there will be plenty more to say in the comments.
18 Comments
There’s more reasons than these rather general ones to avoid Plesk. Plesk installs all kinds of unwanted packages on your system, uses up memory and cpu like crazy, mangles your httpd.conf, installs a mixed up non-standard MySQL configuration, files things in weird places, and makes life miserable for anyone who tries to use command line management to do what Plesk can’t. (Many things, say like updating MySQL or PHP.) I am in the midst of trying to uninfect my system and get rid of Plesk without having to nuke everything and start over. Best not to be infected by Plesk in the first place.
Ya, that’s what I was trying to get across earlier. You should never trust a tool like Plesk to decide what packages need to be installed, or how your conf files should be written.
As you say, it makes it very difficult when you want to (or have to, in the case of a crash) do something the old fashioned way, because you never know how entangled into all your conf files Plesk has gotten. If you take the time to learn how to edit the configuration files directly yourself, then you will know what to change and/or fix if something isn’t working right.
I’ve been using Plesk since version 2.0, and it’s up to 7.5.3 now. Every build gets worse… And, if it’s not bad enough that the programmers keep changing locations of files, setups, and various other things, if your server breaks, your provider will put a new load on your server and guess what? You can’t migrate your old stuff into the new platform. Yup, it seems like Plesk isn’t even backwards compatible with it’s self…
So, you have to spend countless hours restoring domains manually.
Try Webmin, Usermin and Virtualmin if you have to have a gui. It’s free, and uses standard linux, apache methods.
CPanel does a lot better job than Plesk, hands down, but then again, so does ANYTHING else.
One simple reason why Plesk sucks. Support.
More often than not, I run into bugs in Plesk, and when I try to get support from SWSoft, all they tell me is that I need to sign up for their support which is anywhere between $299 and $500+ a year.
I can’t see paying someone so I can report bugs to them.
Why do so many providers offer Plesk when the end-user support sucks? If I ever change servers again, I’ll make sure the new one is NOT running Plesk.
Rant rant OMG this plesk stuff really sucks… In my new job I have inherited a machine running this crap and now the most simple task becomes a major hassle… I want to tweak my httpd.conf but of course I can’t because this junk will just overwrite my changes. I just want to so some simple things that would be SO easy on a ‘normal’ *nix box but hey, Plesk has no support for it… The other machines have BlueQuartz, another piece of shit…
Can you suggest a good control panel for Linux web server control?
Not in good conscience.
Seriously, I’d recommend not using one, for the reasons listed in the original post.
It’s my opinion that it’s very easy to learn to just edit the config files yourself, and if you do that, you’ll know how to do it whether a control panel is installed (and working) or not. If you don’t then you’re dead in the water if the control panel isn’t there or isn’t working.
Webmin, contrary to what JB says.
Well, if you *must* use one, I’d agree that webmin is a good choice.
Thanks, I just installed Webmin (very easy to install) and it is a nice time saving control panel for people that know what they are doing, but would like to relax a little.
It doesn’t look very good for clients in a situation where space on a server is resold, but places like Pair can keep that kind of business
I guess I am what might be considered a power player. I own and operate about 100 *nix servers in our own dedicated data suite. We operate a complete network from top to bottom.
Up until last year we were entirely Ensim. But with one server after another getting hacked into, or mail issues constipating the servers so badly that they would crash, I was convinced by my SysAdmin to take the entire plunge and not only switch to Plesk, but to buy HSP and Virtuozzo for a complete top-down, turnkey solution.
This has been one of the worst decisions I have ever made (besides hiring the SysAdmin not once, but twice.)
Support of HSP, Plesk, or Virtuozzo generally sucks and even at the provider level. When something breaks so badly that I need to contact SW-Soft I expect and insist on support. I pay them THOUSANDS each year because they require a SUS fee and support fee PER LICENSE. Whether used or not. If I contact them just once a month on one server I expect and insist on quality support.
Don’t hold your breath.
The Russians may be fine people, but trying to communicate through broken English, either via email or telephone, is worse than going to the dentist and not getting pain killers. They do not seem to understand the written word, and more importantly, pass the ticket from one person to another, each not reading the prior support history. Solutions, therefore, tend to go all in the wrong direction. When they do fix something often times it is wrong and breaks something else.
Getting support often requires a 48 hour wait. Even an emergency ticket placed last night took three hours and was only answered because I telephoned them. If I open an emergency ticket, dammit, I mean its URGENT.
Last nights issue involved a server that ran out of “file descriptors.” This particular server runs Virtuozzo with Plesk on top (actually a great solution for many reasons.) I had paid SW-Soft to install the VE, the OS templates, and Plesk. SW-Soft staff failed to address an OS issue that limited file descriptors to 1024, so when the 450th domain was added Plesk borked in many areas. For more than 24 hours customers complained and since we couldn’t find the source we opened the emergency ticket. Even Google failed to have the answer and the SW-Soft forums where another user posted the same problem went unanswered by anyone.
Hours later we were informed that we had to recompile apache, php, openSSL, and reinstall numerous RPM’s — even though Virtuozzo has OS templates that hate being side-stepped. The intructions provided were flawed. Moreover, SW-Soft refused to step up to the plate and accept that it was their responsibility to address a KNOWN ISSUE in the OS when they created their OS template. They refused to accept that it was their responsibility to fix the issue.
In fairness, Plesk and Virtuozzo are actually great products — until they break. I clearly prefer them over Ensim and cPanel and can easily get 1000+ domains on a decent server. But their refusal to do the right thing time and time again has brought me to a boiling point and I am ready to switch back to Esnim. At least with Ensim I can open an emergency ticket and get immediate help.
I will never go back to Plesk for the same reasons mentioned. Their support hardly speaks English on the phone or in emails. They don’t understand the problem half the time, don’t respond quickly, and seem to always try and make it the customers fault. Then they say, “for a fee we’ll fix it for you.” That’s BS.
I work for a hosting company as a server engineer. Let me tell you, if you work in this biz and have to support plesk, you start losing your hair. Plesk may be the biggest oversight in programing to date. Heres a fun fact: recently a customer was complaining of performance and reliability of the server (it was actually a VPS running virtuozzo and plesk, so go figure). On top of this, they wanted mysql5 n php5. THIS IS WHERE THINGS GO BAD WHEN YOU USE PLESK. Upgrading plesk is a roll of the dice, let alone upgrading key hosting necessities. After dealing with this 2028902372893 times, id safely say that it is impossible to upgrade the os, php, mysql, and plesk one swoop (or 10). If youre using plesk, get comfortable with what you have, cuz moving forward will cost you more sleep then you’re willing to pay.
.
.
.
Webmin FTW.
wow, I really needed to hear this information. After a looong search trying to find others that hated plesk because of it’s ugly grasp on your system, I found this page.
;~)
A system should have the bare minimum to operate. plesk will screw with your user system also.
My issues with SW-Soft have gone from bad to worse. In July 2007 I paid SW-Soft “professional services” fees to have them move HSP to a new server with a new OS and in a new data center. Much was done in advance and the plans were communicated back and forth. We had lost our lease (no fault of our own) and had to move to a new data center. All new servers were installed, Virtuozzo installed, Plesk installed and old servers migrated. All plans were in writing and well documented.
On the day of the change-over I personally telephoned Support and asked if they were ready for the final step: updating all of the IP’s inside of HSP and the nameserver’s. They reported that they were ready. I was prepared upon return from the old data center to update our nameserver records at GoDaddy and gave the go ahead.
When I arrived at the data center 4 hours later I telephoned again and verified that the transition was taking place. Since all the new servers were in place, software loaded, and verification received that SW-Soft was moving forward I began the process of taking down the old network. All that SW-Soft had to do was update the IP’s in HSP, and run a script that they had that would rewrite all of the DNS zone records per domain.
13 hours later when I returned I found that SW-Soft had not done AHYTHING. They had not even started and all of our old servers had been pulled from service and the entire network disassembled. My entire business was now offline!
Frantic calls to SW-Soft got me nowhere. I was asked to specify exactly what it was I needed to have done — this in spite of detailed written instructions. I scrambled to assign nameservers to individual servers but to no avail in immediate terms.
One major issue was that I was specifically told that I needed to do fresh installation of Plesk 8.2 rather than attempting to migrate existing VZ hardware nodes. Without questioning their instructions I did as I was told. Because I had paid SW-Soft for “professional services” that included consultation and planning I did not presonallt read the Plesk 8.3 release notes.
To my shock, I learned the hard way that as part of Microsoft’s EOL of FrontPage, SW-Soft was no longer installing FrontPage extensions. Although installation of Virtuozzo and Plesk involved installing a FrontPage template package, and although the Plesk 8.3 still contained FrontPage documentation for the Plesk control panel, and although I had read the Pleks 8.3 manual — FRONTPAGE WAS NOT INSTALLED. I scrambled to learn how to manually force the extensions onto 25 Plesk servers. I went days without sleep. Customers with FrontPage had to turn off FrontPage and thgen turn it back on. In many cases they had to republish large sites.
SW-Soft butchered my business so badly and created so many errors that even today remain unresolved. I opened a total of 151 support requests, often because tickets were closed but incomplete. Or a Support Rep. would report that it was resolved but yet nothing had been done. Tickets marked Urgent would remain unanswered for 48 hours or more. Bear in mind that I have 15 Virtuozzo servers with 25 Plesk installations.
Last week, with no advance notice and minutes before midnight, I received an email from my “Customer Relationship Manager” informing me that my support contract had expired. Since I had not emailed him it was clear that SW-Soft was waiting to spring this on me on a Friday night, at midnight, of a three day week-end. How childish and arrogant.
Even though each purchase of Virtuozzo and each purchase of Plesk contained a license stating one year of unlimited email support, SW-Soft demands that larger customers have an annual support contract based on the number of licenses and regardless of when they were purchased. This means that a license purchased in December with one year of support would only get one month of support based on the annual support contract that cost me $2000 above the cost of the licenses. Even their current web sites states that a purchase includes one year of email support.
SW-Soft has determined that 151 support tickets generated largely as a result of their hack job on HSP was excessive. Do the math. 15 Virtuozzo servers and 25 Plesk servers equals 2.6 support tickets per server over one year. Most of these would never have been opened had SW-Soft done its job correctly.
We are now initiating legal action. My business has been destroyed at a time when I need every dollar. My 6 year old daughter has brain cancer and my income has plummeted as a result of over 1000 lost customers and 5 dedicated managed servers paying a premium.
Avoid SW-Soft at all cost! Now that they have purchased Ensim we’ll see what they can do to destroy those customers as well. I can prove everything stated in this message.
Well, I wish I had read all this 3 months ago when I was researching what control panel to buy. There is no way that I can can Beat KrazyBob’s story, but on a small scale, my story is the same. I hope KrazyBob ends up owning Plesk. That would be major cool.
Even with its glitches, Plesk works well — if you don’t try to do an upgrade on a production server. This is no different than Ensim. You know, there are major differences in Mysql and PHP that Plesk isn’t responsible for.
What Sw-Soft, now Parallels, IS responsible for is supporting their product and this is where they fail time and time again. If you blackmail customers into SUS and support fees, you as Parallels should be invested in the problems and the solutions. I am sick and tired of running into a problem and reading back from the, “oh. That is a known issue. You need to do this to fix it…” NO. YOU need to do this to fix it. You created the bug, you fix the damn thing. You make me pay thousands for your crappy support and then have the nerve to tell me to fix it myself? Plesk should be able to detect minor bug patches and apply them with forcing an upgrade of the entire system. Back when I was a DOS programmer we had a program called patch.exe that just went in and fixed the boo-boo spots.
Bite me.
Don’t even get me started on HSP.
I’m not going to continue the trend and rant about Plesk but I would like to offer a suggested hosting provider. I use Media Temple for my VPS needs and they have been great. Granted - I do use Plesk, but you can get their VPS without Plesk installed. MT has great support and I haven’t had any downtime in over a year.
One Trackback
[...] I have a Japanese client using FreeBSD 4 with excellent results. He used to depend on Linux web servers with Plesk, but that was as much a headache as easy, since Plesk in our own experience tends to break a lot of permissions and other aspects, that later need to be fixed manually, wasting a lot of time. One fifth of Japanese businesses using open source OS | InfoWorld | News | 2005-07-05 | By Paul Kallender, IDG News Service [...]