Malcolm X was assassinated 41 years ago today in Harlem. While I don’t necessarily share all of his opinions regarding the methods that should be used to fight racism, I do think he was a valuable and significant figure in the civil rights movement. I thought I’d put up some excerpts from some of his speeches that I find interesting.
Whether you are a Christian or a Muslim or a Nationalist, we all have the same problem. They don’t hang you because you’re a Baptist; they hang you ’cause you’re black. They don’t attack me because I’m a Muslim; they attack me ’cause I’m black. They attack all of us for the same reason; all of us catch hell from the same enemy. We’re all in the same bag, in the same boat. We suffer political oppression, economic exploitation, and social degradation, all of them from the same enemy. The government has failed us; you can’t deny that. Anytime you live in the twentieth century, and you walkin’ around here singing “We Shall Overcome,â€? the government has failed us.
And once we see that all these other sources to which we’ve turned have failed, we stop turning to them and turn to ourselves. We need a self-help program, a do-it-yourself philosophy, a do-it-right-now philosophy, a it’s-already-too- late philosophy. This is what you and I need to get with, and the only time — the only way we are going to solve our problem is with a self-help program. Before we can get a self-help program started, we have to have a self-help philosophy.
Once you change your philosophy, you change your thought pattern. Once you change your thought pattern, you change your attitude. Once you change your attitude, it changes your behavior pattern, and then you go on into some action. As long as you got a sit-down philosophy, you’ll have a sit-down thought pattern, and as long as you think that old sit-down thought, you’ll be in some kind of sit-down action. They’ll have you sitting in everywhere. It’s not so good to refer to what you’re going to do as a sit-in. That right there castrates you. Right there it brings you down. What — What goes with it? What — Think of the image of someone sitting. An old woman can sit. An old man can sit. A chump can sit. A coward can sit. Anything can sit. Well, you and I been sitting long enough, and it’s time today for us to start doing some standing and some fighting to back that up.
America is just as much a colonial power as England ever was. America is just as much a colonial power as France ever was. In fact, America is more so a colonial power than they, because she’s a hypocritical colonial power behind it.
What is 20th — what do you call second-class citizenship? Why, that’s colonization. Second-class citizenship is nothing but 20th century slavery. How you gonna tell me you’re a second-class citizen? They don’t have second-class citizenship in any other government on this earth. They just have slaves and people who are free. Well, this country is a hypocrite. They try and make you think they set you free by calling you a second-class citizen. No, you’re nothing but a 20th century slave.
When this country here was first being founded there were 13 colonies. The — The whites were colonized. They were fed up with this taxation without representation, so some of them stood up and said “liberty or death.â€? Though I went to a white school over here in Mason, Michigan, the white man made the mistake of letting me read his history books. He made the mistake of teaching me that Patrick Henry was a patriot, and George Washington, wasn’t nothing non-violent about old Pat or George Washington.
Liberty or death was what brought about the freedom of whites in this country from the English. They didn’t care about the odds. Why they faced the wrath of the entire British Empire. And in those days they used to say that the British Empire was so vast and so powerful when the sun — the sun would never set on them. This is how big it was, yet these 13 little, scrawny states, tired of taxation without representation, tired of being exploited and oppressed and degraded, told that big British Empire “liberty or death.â€?
And here you have 22 million Afro-American black people today catching more hell than Patrick Henry ever saw. And I’m — I’m here to tell you in case you don’t know it — that you got a new — you got a new generation of black people in this country who don’t care anything whatsoever about odds. They don’t want to hear you old Uncle Tom handkerchief heads talking about the odds. No. This is a new generation. If they’re gonna draft these young black men and send them over to Korea or South Vietnam to face 800 million Chinese — if you’re not afraid of those odds, you shouldn’t be afraid of these odds.
Why is America — Why does this loom to be such an explosive political year? Because this is the year of politics. This is the year when all of the white politicians are going to come into the Negro community. You never see them until election time. You can’t find them until election time. They’re going to come in with false promises, and as they make these false promises they’re gonna feed our frustrations and this will only serve to make matters worse.
I’m no politician. I’m not even a student of politics. I’m not a Republican, nor a Democrat, nor an American, and got sense enough to know it. I’m one of the 22 million black victims of the Democrats, one of the 22 million black victims of the Republicans, and one of the 22 million black victims of Americanism. And when I speak, I don’t speak as a Democrat, or a Republican, *nor an American.* I speak as a victim of America’s so-called democracy. You and I have never seen democracy; all we’ve seen is hypocrisy. When we open our eyes today and look around America, we see America not through the eyes of someone who have — who has enjoyed the fruits of Americanism, we see America through the eyes of someone who has been the victim of Americanism. We don’t see any American dream; we’ve experienced only the American nightmare. We haven’t benefited from America’s democracy; we’ve only suffered from America’s hypocrisy. And the generation that’s coming up now can see it and are not afraid to say it.
42 Comments
Don’t know much about this guy except what I heard in my teen years and what I read in history, books but it seems that the America he hated so much isn’t the nation that hated him. It also seems that the system that supposedly hung people only because they are black, didn’t hang him. It seems that the nation that he gave his allegiance to is the one that murdered him, and they did it because he wasn’t black enough!
The thing I remember about him was that he was advocating violence, MLK Jr. was not.
Living in the north in a racially mixed town it was at times scary. We had a mini riot at our high school and the riot police came ready to beat some heads, which was prevented by the principal and teachers.
Malcolm X and some racist southerners both talked alot giving a bunch of speeches supporting their solutions, on the street level though it hardened positions and gave some people license to act violently - whites and blacks, in my town. NOT cool being chased down and outnumbered by a groups of 15 kids who are yelling malcolm x bs at us, while kids stole our bikes and money, having some black kids come down our street picking fights and pulling knives on us.
King Jrs message was heard and acted on but x only detracted from it.
It was all so much BS attached to it all.
dave, for once i agree with you.
once???
To add fuel to the fire - one movie at that time - might have been shaft 1( I saw this last year and I don’t remember this particular ending being on the dvd ) had an ending that had a huge endscreen message in big type ” Watch out Whitey we are coming for you! “.
On the white side of it, some of the guys, strongly suspected/rumored/cooraborated, from our town’s volunteer fire dept. firebombed a family’s house. They threw a molotov cocktail through the living room window at 3 AM. The police never did find out exactly who did it. The fire dept. did respond as quick as any other time and the house was saved. They lived close to my neighborhood and had a piece of plywood over the window for awhile.
The father, white, was trying to get blacks into the all white fire dept. You needed two sponsers to be considered, so the whites kept the blacks out until the mid 70s.
jacquie: “supposedly hung people only because they are black”
? Are you saying this didn’t happen?
Yeah, it probably has happened. Your point? I have a hard time figuring out why you view Malcom X and his tactics as “valuable.” As far as I can see, he primarily propogated more hate and violence.
My point was that when you say “supposedly …” it usually implies that there is some doubt as to whether it actually happened. I don’t know of anyone who would say that there were not large numbers of black people who were killed in this country solely because they were black.
I did state at the beginning that I don’t share a lot of his opinions regarding the means of making progress in the fight against racism, so hopefully that came across.
I did say that I considered him a valuable and significant part of the civil rights movement, and I think that it is not inconsistent to say that about someone you disagree with.
For clarity, I posted some excerpts of some of his speeches which I consider to be good, thought provoking points - not to be taken as absolute truths.
It is difficult to say how the civil rights movement would have progressed without Malcolm X, but it is certain that it would not have been the same, for better or for worse. I could certainly see it going either way, but since we don’t have any mechanism for viewing alternate realities, that will remain pure speculation.
PS - (This part may be a bit off-topic, since I’m not only referring to this conversation, but many on this blog) I am really tempted to go back and edit out the parts where he mentions “America” in a negative context, because sometimes it seems that whenever anyone sees even the slightest hint of “unpatriotic” criticism, their barriers go up and they don’t want to hear any more, and feel the need to defend their nation’s pride.
If it makes you feel better, just pretend that he lived in some other country and substitute that name wherever you see America above, for the sake of not being distracted from the points that are being presented. I, on the other hand, feel that it is extremely healthy to acknowledge the mistakes that have been made in our past, rather than trying to paint a rosier-than-accurate picture. I think there are important, applicable lessons to be learned from the history of our country, specifically the negative parts.
the civil rights movement was hindered by x, imo.
There was no ” rosy ” picture at that time of the US that I recall. There was a real picture of the problems and challenges. BUT people took personal action and responsibility for their lives and didn’t look to the government to take care of them.
Many “average white and black” people were on the side of equality and shared concern to the point of action, but x got in the way and stired up violence and hardened opinions on both sides of the issue.
The guy was advocating full on violence inside the US against whites. Something I and my white friends did not understand, as we had black and white friends in our neighborhoods, our school, and our sunday school at church.
Because of this type of speech from him and his ilk, many whites in my town and the ny area ” got ready ” by having loaded rifles and talking about shooting people when the riot started. The fire dept guys all has permits to carry pistols which is unheard of in ny then and now. Gas stations did not sell gas to blacks when the detroit riots happened.
Being the receiptant ( and then returner ) of some of that x type hatred ( have you ever been chased down by more than ten black teens? ) it was not helpful at all.
It didn’t create enlighenment, help for the cause, compassion, understanding, freedom - just more hate speech and violence in like degree.
He wasn’t a messiah like figure who died in the name of his cause. He was a punk.
It was bs to the max.
He was assinated by 3 blacks.
from a search from ask jeeves -
” In October 1964 he reaffirmed his conversion to orthodox Islam.
Growing hostility between Malcolm’s followers and the rival Black Muslims
manifested itself in violence and threats against his life. He was shot to death at a rally
of his followers at a Harlem ballroom. Three Black Muslims were convicted of the
murder.”
This isn’t going to turn into an argument about supporting Malcolm X’s methods, since I’ve said more than enough times on this post that I don’t support them.
However, to say that he only hindered and did not advance the cause of civil rights is an opinion that is impossible to prove, since history has already unfolded along the only path we can see from this vantage point. Would things have proceeded the same way without the growing threat of more direct action to combat the injustice of the day? We will never know.
There are still many things we can consider about some of his points of view, however, which is why I’ve outlined some of the quotes that I find interesting above.
For example, I’m sure that a lot of people would vehemently disagree with Malcolm X’s call to a violent response, directed against a larger group of people who were only marginally related (at best) to those who were responsible for the unspeakable atrocities that did in fact occur. Condoning violence against “whites” in general just because some of them had committed such evil is obviously wrong, and I’m sure we can all agree on that.
Here is where I think there is one interesting point of discussion: as to whether taking the position that violence against a general group is ever justified in the struggle against oppression. He makes a good point in this regard in referring to the founding of our country. Washington and others are looked to as patriotic heroes for leading and directing a fairly large and brutally violent campaign against those who had oppressed them, and sought to continue to do so. You would be hard pressed to argue that the oppression of the British against the colonists was even on the same level as the racist oppression that the black culture has faced in the history of this country. This is the hypocrisy that he alludes to.
For a more modern parallel, we could examine the actions that our country has been involved in more recently. For the last few years, we’ve been involved in a campaign of killing people who never attacked us, or even threatened to.
I knew you were going to connect irag and x.
Progress was being made, blantant discrimination laws were primarily in the south as was segragation ( slavery was ebolished in the 1880s ) was being done away with and he got in the way ( so much so his own religious peers got him — Not whites ) and resulted in MORE not LESS violence at the street level. Of which I and friends of mine black and white did have to deal with, that is my main point… This was not a safe intellectual exercise in the ivory tower of discussion realms here in cyberspace. It was an evolution and he helped bring in riots, killing, fights and he hurt the cause and slowed it down.
The country is made up of Individuals.( period ). Individuals who act bad and good. To say it’s America’s fault blah blah, Just about every country had slaves including us and we did something about it and it cost good American people who had Zero vested interest except doing the right thing life and yes limbs.
Re: overthrowing the british comparison - Hello —A War was fought - Slavery was ended by the Civil War ( much worse than the revolution )the slaves were freed by mostly Northern soldiers who did PAY with their BLOOD and LIVES, I think big reparations are due to all those families!
Jared,
Please don’t think that I have some silly notion that America is the embodiment of Christianity/Goodness and the God-ordained judge of good and bad in this world. That is not the case at all. I believe that every culture has its own brand of corruption and evil and probably has it’s own pockets of light also. If you get close to any culture and look at it in light of God’s Word, I think you will find many many many injustices every bit as evil as the Iraq war. I’m not excusing anything. I’m just saying that America bashers are sitting in a false seat of judgment if they think they can find another place which is better. If they do, it’s because they haven’t looked close enough. And all the complaining and finger pointing does nothing to make anything better, as far as I can see.The governments and communities of this world are made up of people, and it seems that most of the time it’s the corrupt ones that make it to the top of the leadership chain.
Here’s the end of it all. Jesus is the answer. Sounds trite, but it’s true.
Dave:
I think you may have been missing my point still, but that’s OK. The civil war was important, but did not by any means end the racist oppression of blacks in America, hence the necessity of the civil rights movement 100 years later, when blacks were still being murdered and oppressed whether or not they were technically “free”.
The point was to evaluate under what conditions you believe that violence (including killing others) is justified, and to try to do it in a way that you can consistently apply to Malcolm X, the founders of our country, and our nation’s current actions. That is not going to be easy if you’ve already decided that the former one is “bad” and the latter two are “good”.
Jacquie:
I never implied that any other nation was “better” than America, so I’d rather not get off track onto that discussion.
I also don’t consider myself (or others who rightly criticize the actions of their government that they disagree with) as “America bashers”; rather, I think, we/they are the true patriots - “America lovers” if you will.
The freedom that the heroes / founders of our country gave their lives for is inextricably tied to not only the right, but the responsibility to speak out against the government when it gets out of line. To hold one’s tongue out of some misguided sense of “patriotism” would be (in my opinion) to dishonor their sacrifices.
Of course, ultimately I would agree with you that “Jesus is the answer”, but that is a somewhat (or very) misleading statement. Jesus’ primary means of action in the world is through the people that call themselves his followers. I do not believe in the abdication mentality that casually dismisses any responsibility for action or social change in the name of prayer or the like.
Of course, we can do nothing without him, but all to often that kind of line is just an excuse to just plain do nothing. In him, we can do all things, not sit on our buts while he does them without us. Sure there are times in which he will act outside of human intervention, but for some reason for the most part he does not.
I’m not saying that speaking out against injustice is all we should do, but it’s certainly a part of it. Bringing it back to this discussion, should we have not had the civil war, and just waited for Jesus to free the slaves in some other manner? Should Martin Luther King Jr. have sat down and not criticized America (which he did harshly, by the way)? I don’t think so.
RE: Paragraph 1:
I didn’t say YOU implied ANYTHING. I wasn’t referring to you, I was referring to people like Malcom X. And if you don’t classify him as an America-basher (Whether he loved this country or not, I can’t say. I never knew him.), I couldn’t disagree more.
RE: Paragraph 4:
This offends me. “Jesus is the answer” is NOT a misleading statement. Nor is it “abdication mentality.” How about, “Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life.” Is that misleading? Jesus never called for political action as far as I can see. He did not encourage people to “speak out” against the government. (I’m not saying they are wrong to give their OPINION, but I don’t see where He mandates it.) He DID talk of praying for our leaders. He DID talk about caring for the poor and the sick. He DID talk about forgiving. He DID talk about being ready to have an answer regarding the hope that we have. But I think overall, you have to admit, he talked about PRAYER and acted out PRAYER more than all of these. If one sees prayer as a cop-out mentality, I would beg them to read the Scriptures again.
I think that people who engage in social action more than prayer because they think that their actions are more effective than prayer have “abdication mentality”. The Scripture says that the “fervent pray of a righteous man accomplishes much.” I don’t see anywhere that it says anything like, “Argue and debate with the leaders of your culture (and anyone else who disagrees with you politically) long and loud and you will accomplish much.”
RE: Your question about the Civil war and Martin Luther King Jr… I don’t know. And neither do you. I’m not God. I don’t see from His perspective. I don’t know the end from the beginning. I’m glad we don’t have slavery here anymore. I’m glad Martin Luther King Jr. had the freedom to say what he had to say and stuff got done. And yes, Jesus COULD have freed the slaves in another manner, but unfortunately none of the slave owners asked Jesus how he would like to have it done. That would have been a no-brainer.
There is very much evil in the world. There is very much hurt in the world. There is very much injustice in the world. I do believe in action, but I don’t think I believe in the kind of action most “activist” believe in.
As you know, I’ve been alive a while longer than you. That doesn’t make me smarter than you, our whole family can attest to that. But I can tell you that even during my short lifetime, I have watched people debate, harrange, yell, hate, politicize, converse nicely, concede, manipulate, compromise, etc. etc. etc. on every issue you can name. But I don’t think the world is any more holy than it was back when. Humans just change and adapt their style of corruption to fit the current culture norms.
Yes, Christians should act. We should act like Christ! Do you think I am saying that we should go in a corner and hold our hands up in the prayer posture and never say a word? I’m not. We have opportunities to speak. Thats great. But, people who believe that prayer is more powerful than an activists tongue are NOT living under an “abdication mentality.” On the contrary, they know where real change takes place and Who gets it done.
I never said that prayer was ineffective or in any way not good. What I said, and Jesus and scripture would absolutely back up, is that it is not the only thing that we are called to do.
Faith without works is dead, and that’s the point I was trying to make. Of course prayer is powerful and effective, but God calls us to more than a passive kind of prayer that fails to act.
In some cases, that’s all we can do, but much more often there is a great deal more that we can do, but neglect to do so. If I am sitting on top of enough food to feed a thousand people who are dying of starvation next door to me, and praying for God to supply them with food, I am a hypocrite.
If I am a part of an organization or under a government that is built on the principle that I, as a citizen, have an obligation to direct its course (theoretically) by voicing my opinion, then it is abdication of my responsibility if I do not do so. So much moreso in the event where a wrong is being done by said government.
Sure, a lot of people choose to only argue and debate without purpose or direction / action as well, which is just as bad as people who think their only responsibility is to pray. But there is a vital need for prayer, for speaking out, and for acting.
My comment was not in any way lessening the importance of prayer, only disagreeing with the sentiment that it should be done in place of / instead of anything else, since it’s the “only thing that will work”.
You (personally) may not believe that, but I would suspect that there are many who do.
Prayer: It’s not the “only” thing that will work but it’s the best thing. And it’s not the “only” thing that should be done, but it’s the first and the most powerful thing that can be done. When you say that there is a vital need for prayer, speaking out and acting, surely you agree that there are “speaking outs” and “actions” which are counterprodutive and some that are down right wrong.
And just for the record, the fact that there are “many who do” something, means nothing to me. Right/wrong cannot be judged by a popularity vote. I’m pretty sure you agree with that.
May main problem was with your comment that the phrase “Jesus is the answer” is misleading. It may not be fully explained in just 3 words any more that saying the 3 words “I love you” fully explains one’s feelings towards another. But misleading? NO. It is the truth. Jesus came to set up a Kingdom. The government, societal structure, and economics of His government are perfect. If that’s what one is trying to speak for or act towards, have at it. And if one is doing their speaking and acting in accordance with the Character of Christ, great!
But I would suggest that the big changes in this world in regards to how people treat one another are not going to take place through the government powers. They will take place, person to person, in hearts, one at a time. That’s why I feel that (even though it doesn’t seem sensible) it is more effective to minister to and lead one soul to Christ than to free a whole society and never have them hear the Good News of Jesus.
That is not a sit on your hands attitude. I believe in action, as I said before. I’m sure you know that.
Paragraph 1:
Sure, there are some methods of action that are wrong, which I acknowledged in my previous comment. There are also times when some kinds of prayer are wrong. The Bible illustrates several occasions in which God told Israel he would not listen to their prayers because of either the way they were acting or the motives behind their prayers. This is (one reason) why I think that prayer can never be considered in isolation.
Paragraph 2:
For my last line re: “many who do”, I was referring to many people believing that prayer alone is an acceptable approach to dealing with world problems, and expressing that I thought that those “many” are wrong. Sounds like that didn’t come across very well.
Paragraph 3:
I still maintain that the statement “Jesus is the answer” is misleading in that it (alone, without explanation) can (and IMHO often does) lead to (or condone) the kind of inactive (or “dead”, as James would put it) faith that I think is common these days.
Paragraph 4:
I would agree with you that the most effective methods for changing the world are individual-based, rather than governmental. All I’m trying to say is that individuals who follow Christ are called to a challenging, even culture-disrupting life. Yes, this includes prayer, but it is certainly not limited to prayer. We should make the best use of every option that is available to us in living out the character of Christ.
The problem with the “leading one soul vs. freeing a whole society” comparison is that the two are absolutely not mutually exclusive. In fact, that’s kind of the point of my argument; as a follower of Christ you are compelled to work towards both. In my opinion (and you may obviously disagree), if one’s only goal is to “lead someone to Christ” while ignoring all other areas of need in their society, that person is not following Him.
Re: “if one’s only goal is to “lead someone to Christâ€? while ignoring all other areas of need in their society, that person is not following Him.”
By the same token, if one’s goal is to attend to all the other areas of life but does not attempt to lead the person to Christ, he is wasting his time. There is no other area of need more important. So even if that IS all you do, you have saved that person for eternity. Prayer and action should go hand in hand and should be done for the furthering of the Kingdom of Christ.
As Jesus said “What should it profit a man to gain the whole world, but lose his soul.”
I’m saying that both should be done, not that one should be neglected in favor of the other. I never suggested that one should be done without the other; that was the whole point I was making.
True, if someone attends to all other areas of life than the “spiritual” they have neglected the most vital portion. BUT, on the other hand, if that is all they do, they have neglected their call as well. They have not “saved” the person, but rather Christ has saved them, in spite of their poor example.
Also, in selflessly attending to the needs of the other are they not “leading” the other towards Christ? Probably more so than preaching at them, I would say.
You guys really wrote books, which I haven’t read.
I agree with you about the civil war that it did not end racisim. But it did move those actions against blacks to be crimes. Crimes that were done by the authorities at times.
” blacks were still being murdered.” so were whites. There wasn’t wholesale murder going on, so I am not sure what you are alluding to. Seems to more of a focus on the dirt parts than the good parts to me.
This is a modern pastime telling us all the ” real ” shit , etc on every decent american semi hero or person of note. People that did do really good things for the progressing of life for many. ” oh but do you know that they did this or that wrong evil thing ” This game isn’t applied to non-americans for some reason. It doesn’t seem to involve making positive changes in a situation. Maybe future people will wonder why the christians didn’t stand up to death for all of these murders of the unborn.
ALL have sinned, anyone with even 25% brain capacity knows it.
In heaven it will be perfect and everyone there will be made in His likeness.
JB wrote:
“The civil war was important, but did not by any means end the racist oppression of blacks in America, hence the necessity of the civil rights movement 100 years later, when blacks were still being murdered and oppressed whether or not they were technically “freeâ€?.
The point was to evaluate under what conditions you believe that violence (including killing others) is justified, and to try to do it in a way that you can consistently apply to Malcolm X, the founders of our country, and our nation’s current actions. That is not going to be easy if you’ve already decided that the former one is “badâ€? and the latter two are “goodâ€?.”
x’s writings really seem demonic to me. Especially when he starts talking about Jesus and gets intertwined with white and black issues. He seemed, to me, to be very disturbed and full of hatred.
I think there are No blanket ” good or bad ” people excusing All of their actions.
My view from my own life experience about x and civil rights.
In my own life, in my kindergarten sunday school we had black kids and white kids ( I was there ), in all the schools and stores were white and black people. My family doctor ( in 1952 )from when I was 1yrs old was black, he was one of the richest people in town and had one of the largest homes. He served many many who didn’t have the money to pay him. He retired up going to the bahamas and serving down there until he died. He was one of the upstanding men in my circle of life. He had black and white patients. I didn’t see all this oppresion you are talking about, I knew it was there as evident when some white idoits burned a cross on his lawn when I was in high school. He didn’t run away and kept on serving the community.
He couldn’t have gotten everyone incited but he did push for equality in the town and was threatened. He did make a huge impact on so many whites and blacks serving and being a good example of the peaceful way to protest.
x hardened both sides they way I saw it and tensions ran higher and people were more defensive racially. I didn’t see the oppression but I did have to fight sometimes because of the bs. Kids I didn’t know. My own black friends ( I didn’t have all that many ) were not included in the fights.
At one time slavery was looked at by those in power as OK, just as …
Today it is the white male is who being passed on a job he is qualified for, not getting into med school, it is the white male who is being made of fun on TV and the white male can’t say anything in return and if he does he is labelled a racist.
just as Today…it’s OK to kill the unborn baby , even to kill them two minutes before they are born.
There were all sorts of WRONG/BAD/EVIL justifications for slavery and racism just like Today the above EVILS are tolerated and ” understood “.
the anon was me, not sure why it didn’t see my name.
Good old classic Dave comments are back…
“I haven’t read what you guys wrote, but…”
I realize we have just about exhausted this topic, but one more thing from me then I’m done.
Re: your comment, “Also, in selflessly attending to the needs of the other are they not “leadingâ€? the other towards Christ? Probably more so than preaching at them, I would say.”
Yes, as long as it is done in the name of Christ and His Kingdom and made known that that is the reason. Not if it’s done in the name of humanity or being nice or if the purpose of your kindness is hidden from the recipient. In that case, God is not receiving the credit, we are.
I wouldn’t say that we should avoid doing anything good unless we can use it as advertising for Jesus.
Good deeds should be done not for some ulterior motive (even this one), but rather because He is good, and He lives in us.
Our motivation should be out of love for God *and* love for the person, not to get some kind of notch on our belt or even because it’s what we “should” be doing.
In addition, I also believe that it is perfectly right to serve and give to those who may never “accept Christ” as a direct result of our actions.
You use the word “advertising” as if it’s a bad thing. Of course we should be advertising for Jesus and His Kingdom! I mean we’re not talking about Earl Schibe or Cal Worthington here. We’re talking about leading souls to eternal life with God.
Matt. 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
You also use the tern “some ulterior motive” as if Christians are trying to sneak one over on people. You make it sound like a dishonest underhanded tactic. NO. Jesus sat everyone down and fed them before he got up and preached to them the “Sermon on the Mount.” Did he give them that food with some ulterior motive of sneaking in a few laws of the Kingdom while they weren’t looking. Maybe. Yes, we should have an ulteriour motive. It should be to pour the Love of Christ on others so that they will want to come in and live in His Kingdom.
1 Corinthians 10:31 - Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
The term “notch in our belt” sounds derrogotoray in reference to Christians who feel that to bring one more person into the Kingdom is a victory. If you were trying to save your family from a buring building and each time you helped one more to safety, would you consider that a “notch in your belt” or would you consider it a cause for celebration because one more person was saved?
Lu 15:7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Lu 15:10 Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
I didn’t say we shouldn’t do things if the possibility of the person never turning to Christ exists, that is the hearers decision and responsponsibility. Ours is to pray, talk, preach, do, give and what ever else God leads us to do,
IN HIS NAME
BECAUSE OF HIM
FOR HIS GLORY
TO BUILD HIS KINGDOM
OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM
OUT OF LOVE FOR PEOPLE
On the other hand, I realize that everytime I walk by a person in the store and say a friendly, “hi” I don’t need to grab them and say, “I was nice to you because I want you to know Jesus.” I do believe that His Character is something that we should just “wear”. But when the opportunity arises (and there are alot more opportunities than we realize) we should be ready and look for opportunities to point to Jesus.
Stop nit picking and face it:
Jesus is the Answer!
Since you seem to be arguing against things that I did not say, I think this conversation has reached its practical limit.
It is interesting to note, however, that the sheer length of this dialog so far serves to prove my point, in that simply saying “Jesus is the answer” is misleading, in that it is not clear without a whole lot of background discussion what one means by it.
I don’t think I misquoted you once. If you were misunderstood, it could be that you didn’t communicate correctly. Coming from a person with a reputation for being a man of few words, I would think that you’d consider the phrase “Jesus is the Answer” to be a great way to sum up one gigantic truth. It bugs me that you keep using the term “misleading”. It iimplies deception or dishonesty and I am offended by that.
You seem to have a negative view of “Christians” displayed by using terms like misleading, notch in your belt, abdication mentality, sit on our butts, hypocrite, advertising, ulterior motives.
I do think it’s cute the way you just decide that the conversation is over because you don’t like the turns it is taking or because someone is not staying “on topic”. If you did that in person (and I know people who do) it would be considered very rude. Aren’t you the one who says that people should “dialogue” so that they can come to understanding of the other persons point of view, etc ? But, true, it’s your blog.
Just to show that I have a hard time following the universal rules of bloggdom….
Here are a few other “misleading” statements:
Jesus is the Light
God is Love
Love one another
I love you
Jesus wept
Follow me
In His Name
JB, Please don’t try to discount my comments with your debate class techniques :-).
I read what pertains to the part of the discussion I have had with you.
Have not read the conversation between you and ma ma j.
Racism was bad back in the day and today. Those who want to can find excuses and crawl in a hole and blame others for their sad deal OR move on somewhere else or do something else. I love what Bill Cosby had to say about the modern black troubles.
Racism is very much alive in our society and at times in my heart.
Jacquie, I didn’t say that you misquoted me, or that I was misunderstood. I was just saying that you seemed to be trying to convince me of things that I already said I agreed with.
I never said anything to belittle the importance of prayer, only that it cannot (or should not) exist on its own.
I never said that Jesus was not the answer, only that saying that (and that alone) is “misleading” in the sense that I think it can lead to a culture of abdication of personal responsibility as representatives of Christ. This, along with several other reasons, is why I don’t think that the phrase is a very good way of summing up a larger truth. Obviously you don’t agree, and that’s fine.
I certainly wasn’t suggesting that you were being deceitful; I was using “misleading” in the sense that it does not give a full picture of what you are trying to describe, and (for some / many people) can lead to a lifestyle that is not all that it should be.
I don’t have a negative view of Christians, but I certainly do have a very negative view and opinion about things that I believe hinder them (us) from being who we are called to be.
I wasn’t trying to cut off the conversation because I didn’t like the direction it was going, I was just pointing out that your comments kept branching off into arguing things with me that I didn’t even disagree with, without really talking about the original point I was making. For example, when I was talking about the need for action in addition to prayer, you seemed to want to keep convincing me that prayer was important, as if I had indicated that it wasn’t. The leading people to Christ issue was similar; I never disagreed that it was an important goal, but it seemed like you thought that I did, and needed to convince me otherwise.
Feel free to continue the conversation for as long as you’d like; I am more than willing to participate. I was just saying that I felt like instead of talking about what I was originally trying to say, you were making assumptions about things I did not say and then trying to talk me out of them.
Dave:
Sorry, I didn’t mean to dismiss you, I was just poking a little fun. I’m not sure if I want to address everything you mentioned in your previous comment as it was kind of all over the map, but I will try a couple points here….
Actually, I just went back and reread it, and I think I have had to stressful / busy a day to try to make sense of that one right now, so I think I’ll pass on it for now.
So, I’ll just respond to your last comment: Sounds like we are in agreement that “Racism was bad back in the day and today” and that “Racism is very much alive in our society and at times in my heart”.
As for the part about “Those who want to can find excuses and crawl in a hole and blame others for their sad deal OR move on somewhere else or do something else.” - I’m not sure if you’re suggesting that the only options that people facing racist oppression have are to either complain and whine about it or “move on” or “do something else”. I think that in the proper manner, it is absolutely essential to speak up and / or take action against racism, not just “move on”. Maybe I’m misunderstanding this part of what you were trying to say.
We’ve talked before about our difference of opinions regarding some of Cosby’s opinions, so I don’t think we need to rehash that one again.
I knew you were joking.
My own ramblings-
RE: racism in hearts
Sad deal but true, need to overcome with God’s help, I definately have some hard feelings.
I don’t see races mixing all that much, as they are usually different cultures. It isn’t really so much of a hate issue as a preference. I went to a funeral at a black church for a friend who died and the Spirit of God came down and God was awesome. Being a believer we all were in God’s family but I was uneasy and not that well received. I think that when you are the only one who is different it is uncomfortable.
RE: Move on, what I meant -
Do what you can, speak up for sure, take advantage of opportunites, change the circumstances, be flexible, move physically out of the south/job/neighborhood, work it. Don’t just sit, complain, shift responsilbilty and blame someone else for personal trouble, whine, soak and sour.
Take action within God’s laws not just talk.
many ignorant, close minded posts here.
before the existance of further posts, you should all do the slightest big of research on this man, the movement, the era it took place, key people involved, chain reactions that took place after X’s death, ect.
It’s really sad that all of you post assuming confidence in your opinions and thoughts, when all you know about the subject is through school, media, and I would expect a number of really useless sources. Research topics before you post.
= /
i think “scout” forgot to post a link to his gambling site.
It does kind of sound like one of those, but just in case it isn’t (and in the unlikely event that this person comes back to check on this)…
“scout”,
Please elaborate on what specific points you disagreed with; there are differing opinions on this post, but you don’t specify which ones you thought were flawed.
Also, please enlighten us on the vast array of “useful” sources that you use for your own research, as opposed to the “useless” ones that you have somehow determined (assumed) that the people here have referenced.
Your comment is basically pointless, since you rant about how supposedly ill researched the opinions you found here are, yet you do not offer any points of correction or point out what specifically was wrong. A lot of the commentary on this post is purely opinion, so I’m not sure how you would categorize that as incorrect, unless you just don’t agree with it, which you have every right to do.
Lastly, next time you get the inclination to arrogantly insult the intelligence of people you don’t even know, I would suggest doing a spell check and proofreading your comment, making sure that it isn’t riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, so you don’t look like a complete idiot.
=)
It is nice to be ( sort of ) defended by JB for once. *.\/ ( the star is for my afro )
Malcolm X was born on May 19, 1925. This weekend we celebrate what would have been his 82nd birthday. Please join us on the Electronic Village and share your thoughts on this African American hero. Let your voice be heard. peace, Villager
Malcolm was a great leader and a great person for what he did an what he stood for during his life.
malcolm x was a good leader he told us from right to wrong and tell us why education is important to us an why we need ot in this world to make it in your life.
Malcolm X didnt preach hate. White people lie so much and slant history.. Malcolm X father was murdered by the hands of the KKK and his 4 uncles died at the hands of white men. In America when a black man tells the truth is considered Hate. Malcolm X lived from 1925-1965… Martin Luther KIng said America was founed on genocide and any nation founded on genocide is a dangerous nation..
Malcolm X didnt preach hate nor was he a racist, he preached the truth. He told white america what black america felt about white america but was too afriad to say…
And to the person who says White men are being passed up for jobs, the Black Unemployment rate has been double that of white america since 1869 and it still is today.. In fact in 2008 White men make up 90% of all Senior Management Positions in the USA. NYU just did a study saysa white ex con has a better chance at getting a job than a black man with an education… At the end of the racist will defend white privilege with lies till the day America doesn exist
The KKK numbered 26 million at its height during Malcolm Xs life time and the African American Population was 22 million. Jim Crow extended from NY to California, even when blacks moved up NORTH they experienced the same type of racism they did down south. White Americans dont respect Black Americans Experience, in fact they try to marginalize and lessen how evil racism was and still is today.
LOL @ White getting passed up for Colleges another myth. I went to the University of Alabama, 25K Students; 20k of which were WHITE, 2500 which were Black , and 2500 other. The majority of white univiersites are still 90% white.
1963 when black students cant get into a 100% white PUBLICALLY FUNDED UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA that is Racism…
in 2003 when the white student body is 80 to 90% and you have a coulpe thousand black students. the white notices i have a black person in my classroom as if that person doesnt belong there, but while they are made at the 2500. they will say my parents didnt own slaves, but they wont call out the 10K white kids at the university whos family did benefit, nor the whites who100% had an advantage because of JIM CROW…
America at one time considered African Americans 3/5s human that was LAW, Slaves, and not only that but Jim Crow which was legal discrimination didnt end til the 1970s….
African Americans loved America, when American didnt love it - Condoleeza Rice
African Americas, especially a man like Malcolm X who had to work as a colored train worker had every right to talk about America in a not so kind light, because America had deemed Blacks 3/5 human,Jim Crowed and Niggers…. Its ok for America to talk about blacks bad but Blacks coulnt talk about america bad??? Hypocrisy at its finest