It’s pointless to argue about the torture issue. If the photographic evidence and numerous eyewitness accounts and secret detention facilities in countries which allow torture aren’t enough to convince you, then perhaps the fact that the administration actively opposes every single bill that would in any way restrict activities of interrogators, even brutal methods.

Not justifing it or allowing it-”the suspension of certain rights in time of war”, just reporting it as a cause.

If this was a normal war with countries adhering to standards put in place by the geneva convention where soldiers wear uniforms and other combatants who don’t are killed immediately as spys or sabotaurs, the civil
liberties would be clearly outlined as to what is and what isn’t going to be allowed.
Since, combatants who are killing are disgused as civilians and target civilians that would argue for a review of our current rules of war and engagement, IMHO.

torture? - that drum has been overplayed and zero evidence has come out.

(1) The rights of everyone are being infringed, not JUST terrorists. It would be nice if they wore labels so you could tell who’s who, but that isn’t going to happen. Also, I think that most rights that we enjoy in this country should be considered human rights, not American rights. “All men (not just all americans) were created equal, and endowed with certain inalienable rights…” When people are thrown in prison without trial or even a formal charge (meaning that they have not been proven to be “terrorists”), and kept there for years and sometimes tortured, I think it’s an outrage whether they’re american citizens or not. Many of the “evil” regimes that we oppose do the same thing (lock up people whenever they feel like it, without proving they’ve done anything wrong) and we speak out against it; I say we should hold ourselves to the same standards.

(2) The huge problem with allowing for the suspension of civil liberties in a “time of war”, especially in this case, is that we aren’t in a traditional war. We could debate whether it would be OK even if we were, but it’s irrelevant because the “war on terror” (much like the “war on drugs”) will never be over, so I’m most definitely not OK with accepting those limitations during “wartime”.

I do feel manipulated at times by both political parties and media and try to fight it by not buying what the mainstream NY, LA Times self proclaimed ” intelligencia ” BS network news is selling.

Haven’t heard about the “unpatriotic/terrorists sympathizer ” pitch.

Groups and people are plotting ways to kill innocent Americans on our soil. I hope the government is doing something about it.
I have few rights in Mexico, foreign agents who are here in the US with the sole purpose of terror have zero rights in my opinion.

I think the US government has had a long history of circumventing some laws that are there for peaceful times, because they look at as if we are at war, with certain groups( not advocating it just talking about it, i.e. Clinton and the Branch Davidians )and the rules and liberties are different in wartime.
This has been going on since at least WWII.

Keyspan is the power supplier for LI.

I don’t feel controlled by the government, because I don’t buy into that load of crap they’re trying to sell us, telling us they need to “control” us more by restricting our civil liberties in the name of security. Unfortunately a lot of people still are buying it, and calling those that don’t “unpatriotic”, “terrorist sympathizers”, etc.

I don’t know anything about Keyspan, so I haven’t commented about them at all.

Control ??? Do you feel controlled by the gov.?

And Keyspan power of NY is hardly a conservative org. they support the liberal causes on LI.

Liberty is a fluid dynamic concept in any society.

Pro civil liberties for everyone except certain people groups that the recent terrorists are a part of. jk.

Friends in NY don’t feel safe. 9 11 is very fresh on their minds. Some NYers will riot and many arab people will be targeted in the city if there is a 2nd attack in that area.
Many rioted during a power blackout, some died. The police couldn’t handle it and it was bad.

One friend said that everywhere you look companies are pushing 3 day home and office disaster kits. The power company keyspan was promoting the “get ready for a disaster” kits and supplies. My friend’s son asked if “they ( government )” knew something and was getting everyone ready.