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	<title>Comments on: Facebook spam</title>
	<atom:link href="http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/</link>
	<description>I was syncing my Facebook status here for a while, but now I'm boycotting them over the FriendConnect fiasco...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dan Cameron</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9561</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9561</guid>
		<description>Anything’s possible…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anything’s possible…</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9550</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9550</guid>
		<description>Dan, the Google ones that you referred to are totally different (and better) in my opinion, because they aren't mixed into your regular messages. That is a huge difference. Although I'm tired of repeating it, I continue to go back to my hypothetical example of GMail inserting spam &lt;strong&gt;e-mails&lt;/strong&gt; in with your regular e-mails, which is much closer to what Facebook is doing. Can't get much clearer than that.

Also, I'm well aware of the difference between spam and regular ads, so no need to keep linking to various definitions of them. In my opinion, what Facebook is doing falls into the spam category for the reasons I've already covered above. Among other things, they cross the line between ads and unsolicited &lt;em&gt;messages&lt;/em&gt;, since they are made to appear in the context of and similar to all my real messages.

Nathan, Google's sponsored search result links are closer, but even those are completely separated from the normal content. Mixing it in with the regular results is what I disagree with. Again, I go back to my GMail example above, or another would be if those sponsored search results were intermixed with the regular search results - I think there is a big difference there.

I do understand your analogy to real world "free" content, but I don't think that's as valid (or at least not as close) a comparison / analogy as one to other "free" internet services (such as those offered by Google), and that's why I continue to compare it to those.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, the Google ones that you referred to are totally different (and better) in my opinion, because they aren&#8217;t mixed into your regular messages. That is a huge difference. Although I&#8217;m tired of repeating it, I continue to go back to my hypothetical example of GMail inserting spam <strong>e-mails</strong> in with your regular e-mails, which is much closer to what Facebook is doing. Can&#8217;t get much clearer than that.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m well aware of the difference between spam and regular ads, so no need to keep linking to various definitions of them. In my opinion, what Facebook is doing falls into the spam category for the reasons I&#8217;ve already covered above. Among other things, they cross the line between ads and unsolicited <em>messages</em>, since they are made to appear in the context of and similar to all my real messages.</p>
<p>Nathan, Google&#8217;s sponsored search result links are closer, but even those are completely separated from the normal content. Mixing it in with the regular results is what I disagree with. Again, I go back to my GMail example above, or another would be if those sponsored search results were intermixed with the regular search results - I think there is a big difference there.</p>
<p>I do understand your analogy to real world &#8220;free&#8221; content, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s as valid (or at least not as close) a comparison / analogy as one to other &#8220;free&#8221; internet services (such as those offered by Google), and that&#8217;s why I continue to compare it to those.</p>
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		<title>By: nstryker</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9547</link>
		<dc:creator>nstryker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9547</guid>
		<description>i agree there's a difference between what your saying and gmail's ads...  although google's standard sponsored links are pretty close, i'm sure my grandma doesn't know the difference between them and actual search results.  however, i don't think the facebook ads are any different at all than tv commercials and adopt a highway signs.  i think you're setting a different standard for advertising on the internet than exists in real world "free" content and services.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agree there&#8217;s a difference between what your saying and gmail&#8217;s ads&#8230;  although google&#8217;s standard sponsored links are pretty close, i&#8217;m sure my grandma doesn&#8217;t know the difference between them and actual search results.  however, i don&#8217;t think the facebook ads are any different at all than tv commercials and adopt a highway signs.  i think you&#8217;re setting a different standard for advertising on the internet than exists in real world &#8220;free&#8221; content and services.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Cameron</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9546</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9546</guid>
		<description>BTW: My comment is still in moderation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW: My comment is still in moderation.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Cameron</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9529</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9529</guid>
		<description>You should get with &lt;a&gt;this guy to integrate the two together.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should get with <a>this guy to integrate the two together.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan Cameron</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9527</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9527</guid>
		<description>I understand the difference between the RSS feeds and email in Gmail, I was just noting that Google implementation for placing ads in a "feed" is very similar and &lt;a href="http://dancameron.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/spam.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;noticeably&lt;/a&gt; worse.

And good thing those ads were different enough for that greasemonkey script to work, :)

FYI, there are already definitions to these terms &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+spam" rel="nofollow"&gt;spam&lt;/a&gt; v. &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&#38;q=define%3A+advertisements&#38;btnG=Search" rel="nofollow"&gt;ads&lt;/a&gt;.  and the key difference is solicited vs. unsolicited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the difference between the RSS feeds and email in Gmail, I was just noting that Google implementation for placing ads in a &#8220;feed&#8221; is very similar and <a href="http://dancameron.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/spam.jpg" rel="nofollow">noticeably</a> worse.</p>
<p>And good thing those ads were different enough for that greasemonkey script to work, <img src='http://freepressblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>FYI, there are already definitions to these terms <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+spam" rel="nofollow">spam</a> v. <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=define%3A+advertisements&amp;btnG=Search" rel="nofollow">ads</a>.  and the key difference is solicited vs. unsolicited.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9523</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9523</guid>
		<description>UPDATE: Luckily, it only took a couple seconds just now to whip up a greasemonkey script to strip the ads out of the page, so now I don't have to be bothered by them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UPDATE: Luckily, it only took a couple seconds just now to whip up a greasemonkey script to strip the ads out of the page, so now I don&#8217;t have to be bothered by them.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9516</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9516</guid>
		<description>Perhaps a &lt;a href="http://freepressblog.org/files/2007/08/facebookspam2.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;visual representation&lt;/a&gt; is in order...

Here you can clearly see that the advertisement is formatted to appear similar to the other news items, and mixed in with the actual news items in a way that (IMHO) crosses the line between regular advertising and spam.

Call it advertising in poor taste, if you (for some reason) prefer to cling to a stricter definition of the word "spam"; either way, it sucks.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps a <a href="http://freepressblog.org/files/2007/08/facebookspam2.jpg" rel="nofollow">visual representation</a> is in order&#8230;</p>
<p>Here you can clearly see that the advertisement is formatted to appear similar to the other news items, and mixed in with the actual news items in a way that (IMHO) crosses the line between regular advertising and spam.</p>
<p>Call it advertising in poor taste, if you (for some reason) prefer to cling to a stricter definition of the word &#8220;spam&#8221;; either way, it sucks.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9515</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9515</guid>
		<description>The RSS entries in GMail are &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; the same as messages inserted within the list of your regular e-mail, which is the eqivalent of what FB is doing with the News Feed. I'm not sure how I can explain that better.

Gmail has advertising, which I am completely aware of and do not consider spam. I draw the line when the ads are made to look like other messages and mixed into the list of other "legit" messages. The distinction here is crystal clear, and I can only assume you're not acknowledging it for the sake of argument. (I noticed you still didn't answer my question regarding the hypothetical GMail example which more closely resembles what FB is doing here).

As for the subscribing thing, the reference to the RSS feed was just a link to tie this post to my previous one regarding the "News Feed", but my complaint here is about the "News Feed" content, independent of the fact that it's not available via RSS. I do understand how that's confusing, though, and it doesn't make it any easier that FB calls that thing on the home page a news "feed".

My question about unsubscribing was specifically about opting out of the unsolicited advertising inserted / blended into what's supposed to be a list of news from your friends (in other words, spam). Since you mentioned "subscribing and unsubscribing", I thought that's what you were referring to, but in actuality there is no way (that I know of) you can opt out of this FB spam other than simply not using Facebook (as you point out) which is ridiculous.

The wikipedia definition seems to fit my concept of spam perfectly, so I'm not sure what would need to be edited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The RSS entries in GMail are <strong><em>not</em></strong> the same as messages inserted within the list of your regular e-mail, which is the eqivalent of what FB is doing with the News Feed. I&#8217;m not sure how I can explain that better.</p>
<p>Gmail has advertising, which I am completely aware of and do not consider spam. I draw the line when the ads are made to look like other messages and mixed into the list of other &#8220;legit&#8221; messages. The distinction here is crystal clear, and I can only assume you&#8217;re not acknowledging it for the sake of argument. (I noticed you still didn&#8217;t answer my question regarding the hypothetical GMail example which more closely resembles what FB is doing here).</p>
<p>As for the subscribing thing, the reference to the RSS feed was just a link to tie this post to my previous one regarding the &#8220;News Feed&#8221;, but my complaint here is about the &#8220;News Feed&#8221; content, independent of the fact that it&#8217;s not available via RSS. I do understand how that&#8217;s confusing, though, and it doesn&#8217;t make it any easier that FB calls that thing on the home page a news &#8220;feed&#8221;.</p>
<p>My question about unsubscribing was specifically about opting out of the unsolicited advertising inserted / blended into what&#8217;s supposed to be a list of news from your friends (in other words, spam). Since you mentioned &#8220;subscribing and unsubscribing&#8221;, I thought that&#8217;s what you were referring to, but in actuality there is no way (that I know of) you can opt out of this FB spam other than simply not using Facebook (as you point out) which is ridiculous.</p>
<p>The wikipedia definition seems to fit my concept of spam perfectly, so I&#8217;m not sure what would need to be edited.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Cameron</title>
		<link>http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9512</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freepressblog.org/blog/2007/08/26/facebook-spam/#comment-9512</guid>
		<description>GMail does offer spam in your definition, if you activate the RSS at the top you'll see it. 

When the non-existant RSS feed comes out I'll tell you how to unsubscribe to it in Google Reader if it comes to that point. If you didn't understand what I said about unsubscribing because this whole topic [I had thought] was around a hypothetical RSS feed then you can always stop using the News Feed.

I guess I didn't understand because I read your post like this, 
"&lt;strong&gt;Maybe I don’t want an RSS feed for the main “News Feed”&lt;/strong&gt; from Facebook after all, &lt;strong&gt;since these spam links are starting to show up in my feed every day"&lt;/strong&gt; 
Oh wait...I'm confused.

But you must get a lot of spam around the web with that definition.

Either way it's advertising through a service. It's not forced advertising, without the option to opt in or out. The opt-in for the "News Feed" is actually using facebook. 

So yes, your opinion for what constitutes spam is just different then what's been already defined. You should edit the definition on electronic spam to not include unsolicited advertising,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_%28electronic%29</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GMail does offer spam in your definition, if you activate the RSS at the top you&#8217;ll see it. </p>
<p>When the non-existant RSS feed comes out I&#8217;ll tell you how to unsubscribe to it in Google Reader if it comes to that point. If you didn&#8217;t understand what I said about unsubscribing because this whole topic [I had thought] was around a hypothetical RSS feed then you can always stop using the News Feed.</p>
<p>I guess I didn&#8217;t understand because I read your post like this,<br />
&#8220;<strong>Maybe I don’t want an RSS feed for the main “News Feed”</strong> from Facebook after all, <strong>since these spam links are starting to show up in my feed every day&#8221;</strong><br />
Oh wait&#8230;I&#8217;m confused.</p>
<p>But you must get a lot of spam around the web with that definition.</p>
<p>Either way it&#8217;s advertising through a service. It&#8217;s not forced advertising, without the option to opt in or out. The opt-in for the &#8220;News Feed&#8221; is actually using facebook. </p>
<p>So yes, your opinion for what constitutes spam is just different then what&#8217;s been already defined. You should edit the definition on electronic spam to not include unsolicited advertising,<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_%28electronic%29" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_%28electronic%29</a></p>
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